Let me have more details or a even a pic two two, and I’ll take a look for you Pretty hefty plugs! Read up a little more here…, Re the star drive, I’m not sure what you’re asking! However the cavity between the plaster and breast is a depth that requires the M6 bolts to be about 150mm long to achieve a suitable anchor into the brick and protrude to allow a fix on the bracket. Let me know what you’re fixing up and clarify the shank diameter of the screw and I’ll be much more specific, I promise! Thanks for your input, always good to hear others experiences as it adds to my own! My question is what is the best fixing option? Click the book to grab your copy via amazon). or +47 91754808, Made with the ever marvellous WordPress running the X theme, tweaked by Ian. p.p.s. TYPICAL COACH BOLT The coach bolt has a square collar under the domed head and this locks into the wood when the nut is tightened. dimensional data and technical information shown on the fastenerdata website is in the public domain and has not been acquired through the standards agencies, it has been completed and compiled by fastenerdata and is for guidance only; where discrepancies are found they are subject to change without notice. I have a good quality stud detector and have established that there are no frame struts suitable to accommodate the requirement. Hey Ken, Hope that gives you an alternative and I really must write up this tip into an article (so thanks for that push!) ), then a red 6mm plug is fine. The absolute key factor is getting deep enough into the brick for the plug to do its job. Take the bolts with you to the store and check the diameter of the bolt’s shaft to the inside diameter of the plug. Then what you do is drill two holes in the back of the box corresponding to the holes on the front. Imperial Nuts and Bolts specialise in the manufacture and distribution of imperial hardware. You will need to use a wood drill bit to drill the pilot hole. The table pretty much covers all types of screws (since it mostly covers thickness and length) so what screw you choose depends what you’re fixing. I’d like to use the same holes. Ian. So, a screw listed as M4 will fit a 4mm diameter hole. Free next day delivery available. The hook you’ve suggested will not fit for that type of fixtures attached on the mirror. The length of a bolt is also stated by the measurement from under the head to the end, but the length of the thread is determined by the diameter, as shown above. An 8mm thickness is more likely to be a type of coach screw or possibly a frame fixing, whereas a 8mm long screw is tiny. If the plug is flush with the surface of the plaster, it’s going to pull out. Great tip Jay! However it’s just occurred to me…. Small screws might be 6 and very small 4’s. Would grinding a little off the top of the screw work do you think? In a high rise? Or you can use a hook of some kind… http://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-long-robe-hook-brushed-stainless-steel-64mm/8364p or similar. Do you think this “cowboy” type plan might work? As mentioned, a set screw is fully threaed along the length of the body, therefore the length is stated by the measurement from under the head to the end. if you need more specific help. Then using a mini grinder fitted with a 1mm cutting disk, carefully cut out the majority of the back of the box, making sure you leave the part with the holes you just drilled. The fastener would twist into a #12 hole on the plastic measuring card at HomeDepot, so that’s what I bought. Plus, – how is a screw size, say, 8mm, what is that? A4(316) - can handle high and low temperatures but has a higher corrosion resistance making them ideal for coastal areas or areas with high pollution. If it measures around 8mm, then you were right the U8 probably refers to using an 8mm drill bit. Can you advise on suitable plug toninsert to a depth of 80mm Thank you. Ideally you want the bottom of the screw and the bottom of the plug in the same place. p.s. Yes I saw you do that with the screw, so that was another mystery clearly explained. 1/4" and larger diameters are shown as inches. *Tips, Tricks and DIY gold. Let me help you improve your 'handy' skills with a free, easy to follow, mini DIY course. Ian, is there a ‘permanent’ code for the relationship between the drill bit mm size, rawl plug size and the actual screw size to use? .tg {border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0;} True Erik. Is that the gauge of that screw–the shank only? Thanks for dropping in, hope you found something useful! I need brass wood screws 5mm head x 5mm length (max) but cannot find anywhere to buy them. Hope that helps, let me know if you need anything clarifying! Hardwoods may well need a slightly larger pilot hole. it’s trying to pull down on the fixing and not too much force is trying to pull the thing out of the wall! Although, it would be closely followed by a T20 star these days. Finance provided by PayPal Credit. Cheers Don’t worry about the length of the brown plugs, just tap them deep into the hole until there is only 40mm (or equal to the length of the plug) of the screw/ bolt sticking out. They are also known as lag screws or lag bolts but should not be confused with coach bolts or carriage bolts. If you’re going into drywall etc. then go up to a brown 7mm plug. I was trying to buy a substitute for an Ikea fastener, and I just needed a screw that matched the diameter and length so it would bite into the wood at the predrilled hole. Let me know. ty in advance, Hi Sadie, a 6mm might be OK, but they might get a little tight going into an 8mm plug. Or alternatively you could drill the hole one size up and use the blue plugs. Can I first ask what you are fastening to the wall? Finance provided by PayPal Credit. Hi Alex, If the hole you have is 4.8mm (and that is in effect your pilot hole) then you’re going to need a screw the next size up. - - - - Call 24/7 on: 03330 112 112 Call 24/7: 03330 112 112 Shop by Product Code Need Help. I’m not quite understanding your question, sorry! 20mm+ in thickness. What’re you making? The diameter specifies the shank and thread dimension. Don’t worry about the length of the brown plugs, just tap them deep into the hole until there is only 40mm (or equal to the length of the plug) of the screw/ bolt sticking out. Exact size also works in most cases. Cheers Let me know how you get on. You could go even bigger and go for 7mm brown plugs and a 10g screw of the same length. Hi Lal, A Coach Screw is a heavy duty screw which has a square or hexagonal head and an externally threaded cylindrical shaft that tapers to a point at the tip. Thanks for getting in touch. That was a quick reply. Also–should pilot holes be drill a little bit smaller than the shank (for greater pressure), or exactly the same size? I explained how using a substantial fixing on flimsy twin slot uprights will not work as the countersink is not deep enough but on genuine Spur which we make in Devon England will take the larger screw size and still allow the bracket to fit. Can you help Don’t forget to ‘share’ it If you put the phillips in a pozi or vice versa you will feel that it does not SEAT firmly/cleanly whereas the correct driver fits the correct screw snugly. Been in Sweden all weekend and just got home. I’d go for a 6mm red plug and an 8g screw at least 2 and a half inches long. The holes for the drill bits are all labelled (metric: mm). then you’ll need some special drywall fixings which spread out behind the drywall (let me know). Cheers Handy chart for converting metric screw sizes to imperial. Yes, the leverage could be considerable. Bolts of ISO class 8.8 and the slightly stronger class 9.8 roughly correspond to an SAE Grade 5 bolt. Especially when it makes me go back and look at stuff I wrote a while ago, keeps it fresh. Once it had set, he remarked out the holes and drilled into the brickwork as normal. Thanks for the nice comment! Makes life so much easier for a DIYer. Our metric stud bolt to nut table is meant to help determine the correct size bolt or nut for your purpose. I’m assuming it’s outside so whatever you choose obviously needs to be suitable for prolonged outdoor use. Am i meant to measuring the threaded part of the screw or the non threaded (shank only) of the screw? Credit subject to status, UK residents only, Toolstation Ltd, acts as a broker and offers finance from a restricted range of finance providers, PayPal Credit is a trading name of PayPal (Europe) S.à.r.l … (He didn’t use the through bolts either but that’s another story) The result is the diameter of the head is slightly too wide for the countersink in the handle and the covering rose plate doesn’t screw fully home. You can change your cookie settings by reading our, For general enquiries: 03457 201201 (standard rate line), Raspberry Pi, Arduino & Development Tools, Engineering Materials & Industrial Hardware, Pneumatics, Hydraulics & Power Transmission, Optocouplers, Photodetectors & Photointerrupters, PCB Cutting, Punching, Forming & Drilling, Development Tools & Single Board Computers, Clocks, Timing & Frequency Control Circuits, Industrial Push Buttons, Pilot Lights & Control Stations, Water Meters, Thermometers & Pressure Gauges, Pneumatic Air Compressors, Boosters & Vacuum Pumps, Pneumatic Counters, Logic Controllers & Timers, Power Transmission - Linear Bearings, Housings & Blocks, Power Transmission - Gaskets, Seals & Packings, Power Transmission - Linear Shafts, Rails, Ball Screws & Lead Screws, Power Transmission - Linear Slides, Guides & Positioning Tables, Power Transmission - Rod Ends & Spherical Bearings, Power Transmission - Roller Chains & Accessories, Electronics Cleaners & Protective Coatings, Writing & Drawing Instruments & Accessories, Electronics Components, Power & Connectors, A2(304) - can handle high and low temperatures. This handy chart below hi-lights a few differences between the two. No nonsense, concise information and table for all you need to know when using screws, drills and plugs. When using coach screws on timber it is advisable to use a washer to avoid embedding the screw head into the wood on impact. Unless you buy them as a ‘kit’ (like a basin hanging set) I think you’re going to struggle to find a wall plug big enough to use on a M10 bolt. My only comment would be to get the fasteners as deep into the wall as you can practically go, preferably below the top course if you say they are laid flat. The M8 will measure about 8 mm in diameter, more likely, just a touch undersize, (.31496") The M10, about 10 mm in diameter, (.3937") and the M12 about 12 mm in diameter, (.4724"). Any advice or input will be highly appreciated. Its on their website. Wow! You’re right, I don’t think any such gauge exists here. These are the two most common sized plugs used in the UK. Metric nut comparison. click… Metric wood screws explained A washer is normally placed before the nut to stop it sinking into the wood as it is turned. Ian. Ven, Hi Ven, sorry to be a bit slower this time! Hi Chris, Usually I would use a heavy gauge regular (12g/14g x 75mm etc) screws with a large ‘penny washer’. Hi Ian, thanks a lot for the knowledge share! Record their details, requirements, action points and notes. Merry Christmas! .tg th{font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:normal;padding:4px 20px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;overflow:hidden;word-break:normal;border-color:black;background-color:#FFFFFF !important;} You might find that a large plug like a 70mm one is designed for a really large diameter screw (5 or 6mm plus). Thanks Bob. I don’t have any boxes to match up against and, if I buy any it rather defeats the object! All dimensions are given in millimeters. Thanks for explaining this – You’re so right about the colour-guide being inconsistent. It is my pet hate when a manufacturer says 6mm to 9mm (random example) in their installation specs, OK, I get that there is a range, but since I am stood here with a tape and can make it what ever I want, I want the optimum size! Most folks in the trade use 8’s and 10’s for most stuff. Nuts and bolts come in many different types and sizes and some are shown below. Diameter: This refers to the screws outer diameter of the threaded section of the shaft and is always listed first. (eBook via amazon). Normally for heavy stuff like a TV bracket you would be looking at creating a solid substrate to screw back onto. Ian, Tried to find some info about screws, read a bit and then your picture jumps up on my screen – glad you got top spot on google, and thanks for the info. (That’s also good advice to stop and re-drill if you think it’s too tight.). I definitely agree with you re the larger screws, I’ve got nothing over a 10g x 100mm in my box for sure. Ian, Just what I was looking for. However some stores will stock 8mm plugs. Metric Size mm Approx. Bolts or frame fixings for me at and above that. I am not really sure if the wall is pure solid concrete, most probably bricks under and cement plaster on the surface. See what they have at the store screw/length wise, stainless steel is best of course. Incidentally if you want to help support this site, grab your… screws etc. I talked about this a lot on another post, here’s the link: How to Properly Use Wall Plugs. I guess we got the design right in 1952 so why change it. Coach screws, sometimes referred to as lag screws or lag bolts, they are designed with a square or hexagonal head and come partially threaded which helps to create a strong hold and create less slippage. It really is a case by case/ trial and error (or experience of course!) Feel free to let me have more details on the job! You can make your own (no, not with a cornflake box and sticky tape) but rather you can ‘convert’ a regular back box, preferably a deeper one like this… from Screwfix or such like. Use one of these links to view the products on the RS website. You’re going to struggle to get a red rawlpug into a 5mm hole, although we used to get them into 5,5mm holes when using small gauge screws. There is a strict relationship between the drill size and the rawl plug size with zero adjustment. I guess I could (resin) glue in steel threaded rod and fix down with nuts? - ASME B18.5-1990 does not specify dimensions for the #8 or #12 diameters. It’s going on a plastered brick wall. Sizes. Any suggestion welcome! It’s difficult to be exact as it really does depend on the plug and the cleanness of the hole drilled etc. Where I live in Indochina we can only get hardwood chopsticks. How to be Handy [hairy bottom not required], 12 Ways to Fix Lath and Plaster Ceilings: Complete Do-it-Yourself Guide for Homeowners, http://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-long-robe-hook-brushed-stainless-steel-64mm/8364p, handycrowd.com/quick-tip-using-wall-plugs-rawlplugs-in-a-plastered-wall, How to Repair Lath and Plaster Ceilings (10 different ways). Difficult without knowing the weight of the mirror, but I’d have through that an 80mm slotted, square hook would be fine with a regular brown 7mm plug, making sure that you push the plug into the masonry itself and through the plasterworks. Another topic I guess…….. Hey Mike, Ian, You’re most welcome Mr Morad, hope your project went well? I have got a piano hinge to attach to mdf 5mm thick. Definitely not a brown plug as they are 7mm and blue plugs are usually 10mm so neither are any use in an 8mm hole. Definitions of terms are located below the chart. Maybe in the States but I’ve never seen anything that small in local stores/merchants in the UK/etc. If the screw starts to get too tight, then it’s advisable to back out and re-drill a larger pilot hole rather than risk breaking a screw (you’ll be having a very bad day if you snap a screw…..). Timber: All coach screws require a pilot hole, using a general purpose drill bit such as a Twist Drill Bit, before they are screwed into place, preventing the wood from splitting. The wall plug will need to be the same size in diameter and depth as the hole you have drilled. Ian. How deep does a wall plug need to be? Bolt Measuring Guide IDEAL BOLT MEASURING TOOLS - For precision measuring we would recommend the use of Digital Vernier Calipers and a Thread Gauge to measure thread pitch. p.p.p.s…… nope, that’s all . If it’s really, really massive then you should look at rawlbolts (M6 or M8) as a solution. Many thanks. The most common type of fastener, a hex head bolt is designed to be tightened with a standard spanner or ratchet and socket. Simply enter the bolt size and length and you will be presented with dimensions that conform to ISO standards. 995979268 and registered for VAT. Simply hit reverse and take it out. (I tried one and it pulled the brick facing off). . Hmm, a coach screw is really designed to go into wood. You don’t say what the plasterworks are, but if it’s dry lining in front of the socket and the plaster is going to be plasterboard why not cut out the back of a plastic ‘drywall’ box and fit that into a new opening in the plasterboard and not use the old backbox screws at all? Assuming the wall is masonry (brick, block etc. Ian, I have 2 inch screws to hang a shelf and was wondering what size of raw plug to use for them any help would be appreciated. Also known as lag bolts or lag screws, they have a square or hexagonal head engineered to be used with a wrench, spanner, or pliers. But generally, standard wood screws are used for most things and coated screws for anything outside. I don’t have too much problem getting the bigger gauges in, as I use a pretty powerful drill driver, but yes, you can’t stop and they need lots of ‘feed’ or you’ll get into trouble. Your message fell through the gaps in the internet. I can’t equate this to your table above. The size you require can be determined by measuring across the flat edges of the head and not point to point. The metric screw equivalent size is approximate, but since we’re heading that way, we need to learn and get used to them! My only comment would be to get the fasteners as deep into the wall as you can practically go, preferably below the top course. .tg .tg-7gvc{background-color:#ffffff;color:#010066 !important;border-color:#010066;text-align:center}. I think I might amend the table and add a couple more lines, but like you said it’s getting dangerously close to bolt territory then! Get in touch and I’ll help if I can. Cheers In a pinch you can use a plasterboard fixing which opens out behind the plaster. Hope that helps you sort out your screw dilemmas. Pilot hole; then measure the shank. Ian. I’m one of those people who have to have every single thing explained (!) Happy New Year to you , Hi Ian, I have 10mm lag screws that I need to fit into a 15mm render and 100mm concrete block wall. Credit subject to status, UK residents only, Toolstation Ltd, acts as a broker and offers finance from a restricted range of finance providers, PayPal Credit is a trading name of PayPal (Europe) S.à.r.l … For nuts, size will appear as diameter and pitch. if you’ve got a 50mm long plugs and 75mm long screws you want to push the plug into the wall 20mm or so. Longer plugs are available but these are ‘frame fixings’ and not designed to be used outdoors. Dishes we’ve done in the past used a blue plug in a 10mm hole (if it’s the 50mm or so, bolts I have in mind). Use the dimensions of your bolt to determine the appropriate size nut. Nice one Robin, I’ll add it to the article when I get a mo. But there are lots of other ways…, Let me know the gap and we can talk again (it sounds like there are some timber battens or framing over the bricks to take the plasterboard?). They are also known as lag screws or lag bolts but should not be confused with coach bolts or carriage bolts. Well, what you suggested would of course work, but a better way would be to extend the box forward. because each type of wood and each type of screw behaves differently. Thanks for stopping by, Oh, and some free stuff mixed in with regular posts :-). I have access to lots of ‘hospital drip’ tubing (wifes a nurse you see) which is about 3 or 4mm tube, perfect when cut down one side with some tiny scissors (also ‘single use’ from the hospital lol!). And What drill bit size? Any plaster? Many Thanks! Thanks for the thanks! Stainless Steel – offers good corrosion resistance making them ideal for outdoor use. Around 6mm? Sorry there is no silver bullet Helen! Cheers Best regards Hils fra Snarøya, That’s why the millions are rolling in lol! Business address: Hagakollen, 1387 Asker, Norway. It was for a towel rail and the fittings supplied just seem to be too small. A heavy mirror really needs to go into the studs of the wall. There’s just one point which I’m struggling to understand. Highly likely it will be an engineering type, i.e. I think with it being ‘only’ 500mm high, I’d be tempted to get long outdoor screws, preferably with a hex head and then use regular wall plugs as deep as I could get into the masonry. If in doubt always measure the plug at the thicker end to make sure it’s right for the size hole you have drilled. .tg td{font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;padding:10px 20px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;overflow:hidden;word-break:normal;border-color:black;} For sure the fitting supplied go straight into the bin in most cases on my jobs! Instead I use chopsticks! What rawl plug size should I use? 6mm – I’d go for a 10mm plug (near enough as above for a No14); I’ve just used 8mm coach screws in preference to a 10mm self-tapping brick screw for a gate-post on a wall. Job done! What would be the smallest you could create? Unless you buy them as a ‘kit’ (like a basin hanging set) I think you’re going to struggle to find a wall plug big enough to use on a M10 bolt. Consider this size… M8-1.0 x 20. Our website uses cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better service while searching or placing an order, for analytical purposes and to personalise our advertising to you. Hmm, a coach screw is really designed to go into wood. Hi, I am about to install a sky dish for my son? Let me know if I can be of any further help! Ian, Hi Ian The dimensions of a bolt can be expressed in metric or imperial units, both of which are better explained in the Bolt Standards section of this selection guide. A brown 7mm plug needs a 7mm hole for example. Ian. Use one designed for double boards, i.e. Ian. The bolt chart provides both US and metric stud sizes. Coach screws are heavy duty screws designed for metal to timber connections, or to join heavy timbers. Most coach screws are made from steel and are offered in a number of different finishes: Thanks Richard, these things are often over complicated aren’t they?

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